The Good Life Unravelled Podcast: Ep. 50 – The Power of Centering People and Their Knowledge of Themselves with Holland Otik (pt.2)


holland otik maker


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This is part 2 of the interview with Holland Otik. Go to episode 48 to listen to part 1 first. 

Holland Otik is a maker, chef, teacher, researcher, and animistic object enthusiast who incorporates magic and ritual into everything they do.

In this episode we cover a range of topics in quite some depth. It’s a super interesting discussion with some pretty profound and insightful ideas.

We cover:

  • How most of the spiritual and wellness industry in the west uses eastern philosophy, beliefs, and culture and repackage to make it accessible to white westerners.
  • History of folk religion in the UK was linked to the natural world and a lot of that has been lost with disconnection through urban life.
  • The importance of autonomy in our current way of life.
  • Links with personal spirituality between autonomy.
  • How capitalist society needs us to be disconnected to keep the system going.
  • Personal art is essential and not a luxury.
  • Everyone is has a creative practice if you reframe what they do.
  • Everyone is a curator and noticing that is liberating.
  • The imperfections in relationships make them more meaningful.
  • The good life comes from being yourself and giving space for others to be themselves.
  • Living with chronic illness taught her to accept that it’s not possible to always be happy or without pain, but finding a peace and accepting moves you forward.
  • The pandemic has opened her eyes to how able-bodied people see illness. This is triggering for the chronically ill and disabled whose lives are always like that.
  • How the wellness industry can make the chronically ill feel disempowered.
  • The tragedy narrative attached to disabled people and the chronically ill.
  • How seeing disabled people thriving might change perception of illness.
  • Even the perception of a wellness treatment can change depending on who it is serving.
  • Wellness industry not accessible to the people who need it the most.
  • What to say to somebody who is chronically ill.
  • Holland’s MA art work on tragedy narrative, child abuse, and self-harm.
  • The problem with centring trauma response on authority figures and not the victim.
  • The need the allow people to self-soothe in the way they know best.
  • The power in truly seeing one another and appreciating their autonomy.


  • If it’s the mystery that you’re interested in with spirituality you can pick anything and give it meaning.
  • Belief is the most accessible self-built resource we have.
  • We have lost the ability to connect with ourselves, to have that autonomy. 
  • Everyone has a creative practice if they reframe and think about what they do. 
  • Curation is creativity.
  • Curation is simply choosing things to go together.
  • In relationships, it’s actually more meaningful to recognise the bad times and appreciate you’re together despite them.
  • It’s ok for not everything to be perfect.
  • We need to stop hiding people that are chronically or disabled. We need to see them living their normal lives, or even thriving.
  • Processing trauma needs to be person-centred.
  • Preferred response to somebody chronically ill saying they feel bad is ‘yeah, that is really awful’. – Say you hear them.
  • There is a power in seeing one another, hearing one another, centring that person, appreciating that autonomy. 


Find Holland here:



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Previously on The Good Life Unravelled … Episode #049 – Creating a transitional activity to cope with working from home